Interview with Tarik Radwan

By Chosun Journal

January 21, 2003

Tarik Radwan

1. Please briefly introduce yourself.

I’m a 42 year-old single Christian (Catholic). I was born in the U.S., but primarily raised internationally until age 12. My father was an agronomist with the UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO). As a result I lived in Egypt, Argentina, Bangladesh, Thailand and Italy.

My entire frame of reference changed every time we moved to a new country. When we finally got to the U.S., it wasn’t like any of the places that I had lived before. So I went to law school in part to figure out how things work in my own country.

I’ve been licensed for 18 years, and I still am just trying to figure out how things are supposed to work. My natural interests are much more in line with researching and teaching than with litigating.

I’ve been involved with Jubilee Campaign USA since late 1993, when I left military service as an Air Force judge advocate (military lawyer). Jubilee is a non-profit entity that campaigns mostly for persons facing persecution on account of their faith. It’s through the work of Jubilee that I became involved in matters of international human rights. All work for Jubilee is pro bono. My salary comes from a law practice.

2. How did you become involved with NK refugees?

I had occasion to co-teach a class on international refugee and human rights law at the Handong International Law School, in Pohang, South Korea this past summer. My colleague, Ann Buwalda, who directs Jubilee Campaign, USA is also a practicing lawyer. She was the co-teacher.

In preparing for the class, I began to review generally the situation in North Korea. What began to get my attention was the testimony provided to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. I was shocked by the vehemence with which the regime persecutes people of faith.

I went over there as a teacher, but came back a student. Everything that is supposed to be standard refugee and human rights law didn’t seem to apply to North Korean refugees.

  • Why is it that 300,000 Indo-Chinese receive refugee protection in China, but not one of the 300,000 ethnic Koreans can even apply for similar protection in China?

  • How is it that China, a State Party to the Convention and Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees, publicly lauds its commitment to the Convention, but has never been held to account for its refusal to apply it in the case of ethnic Koreans?

  • At the 50th Anniversary Meeting of Ministers of the State Parties to the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, China’s Vice Foreign Minister referred to the Convention as the “Magna Carta of international refugee protection.” It is the candle in the dark for those who have had to flee their homes. At the same meeting of the 141 State Parties to the Convention and/or Protocol, the assembled States declared that the principle of non-refoulment is now embedded in customary international law. It is a binding obligation, whether or not a country is signatory to the Convention. So, why is it that no one has been able to Challenge China’s duplicity?

  • How is it that China publicly declares to the United Nations that it observes the principle of “pacta sund servanda,” subordinating its national laws to its international treaty obligations, and yet it disregards those obligations completely in the case of Korean refugees?

  • How is it that the sitting Vice Chair of the U.N. Committee Against Torture is from China, and the country not honor its obligations under the treaty not to refoul anyone to a country where they are likely to be tortured?

  • Why is it that China imprisons people who follow “evil cults,” but does not protect North Koreans who attempt to escape one?

3. What are the biggest human rights issues in North Korea today?

Probably the very right to be human. To have an independent thought. There is such state paranoia that anyone who believes differently than the “Dear Leader” is a political threat. The practice of condemning three generations to political prisoner camps because of a careless word of one is irredeemably evil. The terror visited on its own citizenry is unspeakable. Even people who escape to the south are afraid of releasing their identity because of fear that their relatives in the North will be punished as a result.

I believe that when the truth is finally unmasked in North Korea, we will all be shocked at the level of depravity. People will call it what it is - crimes against humanity. When the TV cameras finally get into the political prisoner camps, they will show us Dachau and Auschwitz all over again. At that point, we will have to face ourselves and ask why we in the “civilized world” did not act to stop it.

4. What can and should be done to address the human rights problems of NK?

I think the Op-Ed piece in the Wall Street Journal provides a thoughtful response to this question. However, we need a better mechanism than we currently have with China. All the talk of human rights with China hasn’t shown any results with regards to its treatment of Korean refugees.

However, my overriding impression has been that courage in promoting human rights is scarcely found among those sitting in places of authority. They each operate out of fear. Fear that doing the right thing will result in an avalanche of refugees. Fear that a destabilized North Korea will result in 20 million people to feed and care for. Fear that North Korea might resort to nuclear war. Each operates with the view towards its own best interest. So, no one at the table is really charged with securing minimum human rights for 20 million of the world’s most oppressed people. (I note with admiration exceptional persons such as Senator Brownback, who still see the oppressed refugee notwithstanding all the political white noise).

Courage is found in ordinary men and women, who out of a deep personal conviction minister to emaciated refugees hiding in China. Courage resides in the hearts of humble people who do the right thing, expecting nothing in return. Courage is demonstrated by those who risk their own imprisonment for offering a glimpse of humanity to those who can never repay them. How absurd it is that these very ones should be hunted down and imprisoned by the Chinese government. In the end, North Korean history will record these as its heroes. It is said that a tree is known by its fruit, and that a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. I do not hold out any hope that the current regime in North Korea will suddenly emulate its southern neighbor. It is an extortionist Mafiosi freak of history that sits as a tumor on the body politic. Its only interest is self- preservation. That is — preservation of the regime, not the people it subjugates.

With that in mind, any aid to the people of North Korea must be conditioned on transparency. Rigorous monitoring and unimpeded media access is the price for staying in power. I would go so far as insisting that every recipient of international aid be given a copy of the International Declaration of Human Rights in Korean. (Copy attached). Maybe include Sears catalogues to spark a little debate about the policies of the “Dear Leader.”

What is meant by ‘binding arbitration?’

China is a State Party to a number of human rights treaties, including the ones on refugees, and the one against torture. In each instance that China has ratified a human rights treaty, it has exempted itself from the clause within it that gives the International Court of Justice (ICJ) the authority to decide disputes under the treaty. So, the only way to compel China before the ICJ on its conduct under the treaty, is if China agrees to handle the dispute in that way. That won’t happen. So there has been no way to force the question. China has been able to maintain a completely illegitimate position that all ethnic Koreans cannot even apply for asylum, and no one has been able to force them into court.

The one exception is a bilateral agreement, whereby the UNHCR maintains an office in China. The agreement does not substitute the international Convention, it simply sets forth the particulars about how the UNHCR will conduct itself there. The Agreement was signed on December 1, 1995. It provides, among other things, that the UNCHR will at all times have unimpeded access to refugees in China. It also provides that if the parties reach an impasse on a matter under the Agreement, either may call for arbitration. Each side is given 30 days to appoint an arbitrator, and those two are given 15 days to appoint a third, who shall sit as the chair. If they cannot agree on a third, either party may ask the President of the International Court of Justice to appoint the third. The decision of any two of the three arbitrators shall be the decision of the panel, and shall be binding on the parties.

In other words, the UNHCR has had the right for seven years to call for binding arbitration. At any point, after it was denied access to refugees in the border regions, it could have initiated the process.

Faced with mounting evidence of massive refouling of Korean refugees, the UNHCR’s failure to invoke binding arbitration makes it culpably negligent to the point of being complicit. One has to ask just how seriously it takes its mandate to protect refugees and promote durable solutions to their plight, when it refuses to mend a hole in the global refugee safety net the size of China.

Why has the UN not acted on this before?

Please ask them directly.
Please ask every newspaper of wide circulation to ask them directly.
Please ask your members of Congress to ask them directly.
Please ask the administration to ask them directly.
No answer that I can think of satisfies.

I joined several other NGO representatives in Geneva last September to urge the UNCHR to do this very thing. I was truly hoping that they would do the right thing for the right reason. That way, no one would have grounds to complain that it is politically motivated. This is a question of law, not of politics.

The meeting served only to confirm for me that profiles in courage are scarcely found among those seated in positions of authority.

Perhaps if donor states begin to condition their pledges to the UNHCR on evidence of a robust determination to protect Korean refugees things will change. I would still prefer it if the UNHCR did so out of duty to its mandate.

However, the record is not encouraging. For example, in its 2003 Global Appeal, the UNHCR does not address the plight of North Korean refugees as a group, nor propose durable solutions for them. It is as if they don’t exist. And, actually, according to UNHCR’s global statistics of refugees for the past 10 years, they don’t exit. (See attached excerpt). How convenient. China prevents the UNHCR from access to Korean refugees, and the UNHCR then officially shows there aren’t any.

5. Please share some memorable experiences during your work for NK human rights.

I have to begin by thanking the students at Handong International Law School. They are bright, caring, and joyful. I treasure them dearly. I am impressed that they have decided to establish a refugee and human rights resource center. Expect to hear good things from there.

I have been so impressed with the character and commitment of others who have been at this a lot longer than I have. I count it among the finest gifts this life has offered me to have met some of these people. And the beauty of it is that they are ordinary people.

I asked one worker who had been active for years how his wife felt about his frequent trips to China. He said: “she doesn’t like it, and used to complain a lot.” He had not set out to help refugees. It’s just that one day, he witnessed the public sale of a woman refugee in China, and was forever changed. That image kept him going back. Still, there was friction at home.

Finally, he thought to take his own wife, so she could see what was so important to him. They were directed to a cave up a mountain some distance from a town. It was snow covered, and very cold. As they approached the cave, they found a young couple. The wife had given birth there in the cave two days earlier. They were huddled, freezing. “They were pitiful,” he said, with pain in his eyes.

He was quick to commend his wife. She helped to obtain food and clothing for the young couple. We did not leave until we felt that they could survive. “Now,” he said to me, “she still doesn’t like for me to go, but she doesn’t complain any more.”

That’s the reality. His wife is afraid that one time, he will not return home. The bounty that floats above the head of each aid worker is an ever-present threat. When I consider the price the Chinese have offered for his head, I think no amount would ever equal his worth.

6. What is the Jubilee Campaign currently doing with regard to North Korea, and what does it plan to do in the future? How can our readers get involved?

Jubilee Campaign currently has three independent affiliates. One in the United Kingdom, one in the Netherlands, and one in the U.S. Each has committed to working within its sphere of influence towards a common objective - binding arbitration.

We work in harmony with other NGOs that have been actively involved with North Korean refugees or human rights issues. Many hands make light work. It’s been a joy to contribute what we can to the work.

We anticipate participating in the upcoming U.N. Human Rights Commission meetings in Geneva.

We are also endeavoring to coordinate particular legal interventions on behalf of known refouled refugees, with the help of students at Handong International Law School. There are a number of available mechanisms at the U.N. for raising specific cases. We are looking forward to the Law School’s launch of a refugee and human rights resource center.

My prayers are with you and other advocates for North Koreans daily.

I can’t help but think of the couple in the cave when I step out into the icy parking lot. I can’t begin to imagine what it must be like to be so desperately exposed.

I hope with everything that is in me that God has purposed to bring their suffering to an end.

In Christ,

Tarik

Email: tarikradwan at jubileecampaign dot org

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